How Do You Get The Job As Head of Crap Decisions?
Tony Horne asks what fool scheduled Sunderland v Stoke to coincide with the Great North Run.
4 Sep 2011, 14:15
The Great North Run
The Great North Run is over-subscribed to the tune of close to three times the 52,000 who will start – it’s a fixture in the diary with half the participants coming from the North East, and the rest from across the country and around the globe. It also represents the biggest till-ringing weekend in the local economy.
Congratulations then to Sunderland AFC and/or the police and/or the council who have now decided to host Sunderland versus Stoke at 1pm on Great North Run Sunday.
Let me give you some context here. In 1999, this also happened when a meaningless friendly between England and Belgium took place at The Stadium of Light. The kick-off time was 5pm but frankly, who has ever heard of an international friendly on a Sunday afternoon anyway? I can tell you how late people were running and how disinterested they became – poor Garth Crooks had nobody to have lunch with except me, and I only met him for the first time in the buffet queue. People arrived in dribs and drabs. England playing an international football match in the North East – then a rarity before Wembley was re-built and they went on tour – was an afterthought.
Here is the other point. This global TV event starts at 10.45am UK time. The mean finishing time is between two hours and two hours ten minutes – around 1pm. Sue Barker traditionally is off air by around 1.30pm. Whilst many Fred Flintstones and deep sea divers have yet to finish, the main course has been well and truly served.
Then comes the problem of getting out of the race – you are looking at a minimum of sixty minutes to get out of the car park on one of two roads, or a public transport wait of up to an hour on a piece of poorly-designed single track Metro rail.
Then there’s the number of spectators, who line the 13.1 mile route every inch of the way. All the roads are closed, and the first only begin opening around 3pm when two police outriders ridiculously escort the VIPs back to Newcastle, ordering any other traffic to wait until the superstar coaches have passed. This is really important police work this, right up there with a COBRA meeting. The coach tends to have Ben Fogle, Dick and Dom and myself slumped in the seats.
So, why then the decision to host Sunderland’s match at 1pm?
In an era when a cut police force is pleading poverty, lunacy is clearly still rife. Cunning observers will note that it is because of Stoke’s participation in the oh-so-important Europa League on a Thursday that means the game moves to a Sunday but any old thicko can call tell you then to put the game back to 4pm at best or move it to the Monday. Or are Sunderland being bloody-minded, arrogant or just stupid? More than any chairman I have ever met, Niall Quinn is sensitive to his community. It doesn’t look like his handiwork.
Someone will spin this as “what a weekend of sport in the North East” but that’s a lie. It’s a guestimate but I would suggest that at least 5,000 fans will be compromised by the double booking, let alone everyone else who just happens to be wandering through the region on that day.
It’s one of those decisions that only in the event of disaster – traffic accident, Red Arrows crash, terrorism, crowd trouble – will the stupidity of the decision become evident.
You remember, as we approach the anniversary of 9/11 how people suddenly became aghast after the event that all this time you had been allowed to carry Swiss Army Knives on planes and then following the attacks everybody said “yeah, that’s actually stupid, good point”...well, it only takes one little thing to go wrong and the same line will be trotted out here.
“How bloody stupid to have two big sporting events in the pocket of the North East on the same day” they will say and a police chief will reply “it’s the cuts, we were under-resourced and nobody could have foreseen this extraordinary set of circumstances”.
Bollocks. I can see it now, two weeks away.
If you don’t know the area at all, you are looking at mostly two-lane “motorways” in and out of the area and very little Traffic Plan B.
Stoke fans will need to hit the M6 by 830 to make the game. Sunderland fans should leave even earlier!
How on earth do you get to be the person who makes this decision, and who are the nodders who sit round the table saying “good call, Chief”?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it seems almost as stupid as Northumbria Police ringing Ray Mears’s agent asking them if he could pop down and help look for Raoul Moat last July – and that’s true by the way. Foresight, however, is quite a simple thing...seems to be in short supply though.
The author
Tony Horne
Network Broadcaster for UTV Media, Ghostwriter of “Bodyguard – My Life on the Front Line” with Craig Summers and “Tango 190” with PC David Rathband.
Full profile →
Comments (22)
Subscribe to this posts's comments feed
Quinn OG ,,, massive PR error on behalf of Sunderland, not only does it show lack of Respect for an instutional day in the North East Calendar, but shows a lack of business acumen. Surely this will have an adverse effect on the crowd size, if Sunderland football Club think otherwise their Either ignorant or pig headed. Ig they went to the police and asked for a 5pm KO then I'm sure the police commander would say yes, but if they went and askes for a Monday KO then I'm sure they would move to the top of everyones Christmas Card list
Using an excuse that kids can go to the match and still be up for school the next day now sets a president, SAFC won't play any moidweek or evening KO games, so when Sky Sports come knocking waving wadges of cash will they say NO the kids need to be up for school tomorrow
Come on Mr Disco Pants do the right and propper thing, move the bloody game
04/09/2011 19:02I'm with Domali on this. Niall Quinn has to show some authority and get the game moved completely!
Whether its a Monday night game or later in the season, The FA, Sunderland, Stoke, The Police, Sky Sports should have checked the fixture dates.
The date for this years GNR was announced last year on the 19th of September 2010! That date was the day of last years GNR! Are the FA so up their own backsides they think they can have matches played when they want?
Or do Sky Sports think that because they don't show any coverage of the GNR that it bares no importance what so ever?
Personally I'd rather watch 2 and a bit hours of people running for fun/good causes/something special in their own lives, than 90 minutes of a bunch of overpaid clowns who only care about the extortionate wage!
04/09/2011 19:38It reeks of money grabbing north/south divide ignorance. Lets say each of the 52000 runners aim to raise £300 each for their own chosen charity. A charity which inevitably has a highly emotional connection to each runner and they are all runners, not competitors. Every Bananaman, every Chicken and every Batman and Robin all running their hearts out that could amount to £2million all told. Funny, as this could equal the same amount of TV payment and players wages for the day?
Logisitcs, traffic movement(or lack of it), this is going to be farcical and emabarrassing, possibly even players coaches being delayed? That'd be poetic in itself
04/09/2011 22:00In answer to the question posed by the headline.
1) Rise to a senior rank - for example Chief Superintendent, in the police force.
2) Upon retirement, apply to a football club for the position of "Head Of Safety".
3) Ensure that your former employers are aware that you will "cooperate fully" with any requests that they may make, before the aforementioned club seeks a formal reference.
4) Sit back and enjoy your new position in full knowledge that NOBODY in the club will dare to even question your "recommendations".
This, latest, debacle has the fingerprints of Paul Weir all over it, but don't expect the forensic team any time soon!
05/09/2011 05:04If only all the comments were as witty as Laeotaekhun...brilliant fun...now, just the articles to work on!
05/09/2011 08:29I agree with the sentiment but first three comments have not been rsearched. Stoke's participation into Europa League and Carling Cup (Tuesday v Spurs) means there is no choice but to play the game at 1pm.
There is no way Quinny would put the game on at the same time as the GNR if he could avoid it. Equally, he has no power to move it. Games are not played when the Chairman wants them to be!
Those that decide the fixtures should block this weekend out as a weekend where Newcastle and Sunderland both play away from home. Then there will be no impact no matter what competition the opposition is involved in.
05/09/2011 08:57Er, Gareth...perhaps 4pm on the Sunday?
05/09/2011 09:28I remember the day when I ran to Shields before heading to the Sunderland Stadium of Light for the England friendly. Just about do-able.
Options seem to be:
- play the game at 4pm to allow people to run and attend the match.
- leave the match on Saturday afternoon and get Stoke to sort out their own fixtures, possibly playing their European game on the Wednesday evening.
Gareth, your idea of having NUFC and SAFC play away is unnecessary and impractical. As soon as you put them both away on one weekend then they both have to be at home on another weekend.
05/09/2011 10:28Crazy decision by whoever made this. I don't believe that the people of the north east were consulted (or even considered) at any point.
Europe is one thing but is the week which follows the only time that this could be done?? As a volunteer for the run (helping with drinks etc), I will not get away until well after 6pm on the evning so a game at ANY time on the Sunday would be a no go for me - the game should simply be played as a midweek fixture later in the season (during the europa break etc) there are always weeks which have nothing happening game wise and this is what should have happened.
I believe that SAFC will be lucky to pull 35000 for the match kicking off at this time - I know at least 20 season ticket holders who are running this year and another dozen or so who are helping out in some way shape or form. The club need to think about people rather than the "other club" and call off the fixture for the weekend.
I partially agree with Gareth about both SAFC and NUFC playing away that weekend but fans of both clubs ravelling at the same time would undoubtedly cause trouble somewhere (Trains etc) so it would have to be arranged so one was on the Saturday and the other on the Sunday. Even 4pm would not work for a lot of people Tony as the time it takes to get away from the Great North Run is horrendous (I was a spectator a couple of years ago near the finish and it took me until after 5pm to get home).
Crazy decision by whoever made it
05/09/2011 10:40I sent an Email to SAFC about this and got the following response:
Dear Marc
Thank you for your email.
Naturally we share in your disappointment that the Stoke game has had to be moved as 3pm Saturday kick offs are always our preference. However in this instance due to Stoke’s progress in the Europa Cup the game has had to be moved by the Premier League. In such circumstances the game has to be played at the earliest available opportunity and as such the Premier League has designated Sunday as this date - a midweek rearrangement was not possible due to Stoke’s involvement in the 3rd Round of the Carling Cup.
Full consultation has taken place with all of the relevant bodies involved in the Safety Advisory group such as police, transport groups such as Nexus and the local authority and all have given their support for the game to take place at this time.
We do understand that it may impact on some supporters due to the Great North run taking place but in this instance the game has to be played as soon as possible and our hands are tied.
Kind Regards
Media and Communications Team
So it seems that the only people who weren't consulted on this are the people that pay the players wages
05/09/2011 11:59We want more of that Marcus - the cut and pasting of emails out into the public!
05/09/2011 12:30I too don't believe Niall Quinn was aware of this when it was decided. If he was then I could not be more disappointed. He needs to show some leadership now and get this changed if possible. I have emailed the Premier League to verify SAFC's claim that they had no choice, as per the reply to Marcus.
I think the club's judgement of the impact on supporters has been grossly underestimated. My guess is the people on the 'Safety Advisory' group have NO experience of being squeezed onto metro trains or stuck in traffic for hours before and after the GNR. As you say, adding thousands of football supporters to the mix, is just a recipe for disaster.
05/09/2011 12:54Here's evidence that "next available opportunity" is nonsense. You remember when Steven Gerrard didn't (!)attack that guy in the bar after Liverpool whopped Newcastle 5-1 (Boxing Day perhaps?) Liverpool played twice in about 36 hours - one was an 1130am kick off, I'm sure. Most Christmasses, you get two games in 48 hours. These are professional athletes. I think they could have played at teatime on Saturday if they really wanted.
05/09/2011 12:56Bugger, bugger, bugger.
There goes one of my missing grounds for the 92 club...
05/09/2011 15:05Sent this to the club and got the generic response as above, then demanded my emailed was passed on to someone else and was actually read, I was then sent a link to an almost identical press release.
I am writing to express my disappointment and shock that the club have rescheduled a match at a time that will cause so many season ticket holders and supporters to miss the match due to another, established and well publicised event, the Great North Run.
05/09/2011 15:25I fully understand that Stoke City are competing in a UEFA Competition on the preceding Thursday and under Section E, Rule 7 of the Premier League Rules, Stoke City are entitled to have the fixture moved to Sunday 18th (and not another date).
I had already anticipated this change of fixture, but had faith in the club to schedule the game for a suitable kick-off time that would allow the many supporters involved in the Great North Run to attend the match.
Whilst Section E, Rule 7.2 requires police consultation before the rescheduling of a match, I wonder if the club have considered their supporters before making such a bewildering decision?
Whilst Northumbria Police may be happy with available officer numbers and traffic considerations close to the Stadium of Light, it is not their responsibility to consider how supporters will be affected, that is something we, as season ticket holders, trust the club to do.
I am aware that the club will not be worried about potential financial loss from the kick-off time as Section C, relating to club finances, allows for clubs to be compensated if a games is rescheduled due to an away team (Rule 97), and teams will be compensated with the “sum (if any) by which the Home Club’s
net revenue from the postponed League Match falls short of the Home Club’s average net revenue for League Matches played in that Season” (Rule 99). This is an incredibly cynical view, but with Newcastle and Chelsea the only home games prior to Stoke, have the club decided that the view of supporters is not important as they will receive compensation for the lower attendance at the match, bringing the match-day revenue in line with two category A matches?
I have heard from other supporters that the club have blamed the Premier League for the kick-off time, stating that the game has to be played at the earliest possible opportunity. I’m afraid this is not the case.
The only conditions within Section E relating to the fixture state that the game should be played on Sunday, and that the change of fixture does not result in the opposing club (i.e. Sunderland) to play another match within two days. At no point do the rules suggest a game needs to be played at a particular time, or at the earliest opportunity as you have suggested in response to concerns from other supporters.
From what I have read in the Premier League Handbook for 2011/12 season, there is no suggestion that the game needs to be played at the earliest opportunity, and that you hands are not in fact ‘tied’ by the Premier League.
I am curious to hear why the club chose to schedule the game for 1pm and not a more ‘fan-friendly’ time of 3pm, or 4pm?
I am a season ticket holder at the Stadium of Light (North Stand Upper) and as a competent runner and will be taking part in the Great North Run on Sunday 18th September, along with 54,000 other people running to raise money for charity in one of the biggest athletic events in Europe.
I will now not be able to attend the Sunderland v Stoke City match because the club have failed to take into consideration their supporters when making a decision. I know I am not the only supporter in this position, and I am sure many, many more will be just as upset by the clubs lack of consultation and consideration.
I think the email explains the situation, when I received the link to a press release I sent yet another email to highlight my original points, and also the fact that Fulham have scheduled their game for 3pm on the Sunday. A very bad decision, and an extremely poor public relations exercise in the aftermath from the club. It is very disappointing that a club with a newly employed 'hot-shot' chief exec and marketing director cannot even get a good excuse for such a mistake. I would have a lot more respect if they apologised and admitted a mistake, will be more aware in future, but instead they make up 'rules' to cover them.
Email from the Premier League:
Thank you for your e-mail concerning the change in fixture of the Sunderland v Stoke City match.
The compilation of the fixture list is a complex process in which a number of factors are taken into account including police requirements, progress of Premier League clubs in European and domestic cup competitions and broadcast selections.
We appreciate that the change to the Sunderland v Stoke City fixture will create difficulties for fans who wish to attend the match and participate in the Great North Run but in this case Stoke City’s progress in the UEFA Europa League, requiring them to play a European fixture on Thursday 15th September, meant the fixture had to be moved to Sunday.
The kick-off time for the match was agreed by all parties involved; the local police force, the two clubs, the Premier League and the Safety Advisory Group.
We apologise for any inconvenience that the fixture changes may cause you. Thank you for taking the time to contact us and provide us with your feedback.
-----
My response:
I am not happy with this response as it does not explain WHY the fixture had to be played on the Sunday.
Sure I understand the 48 hour rule after the Europa cup game and Stokes participation in the Carling cup in the week following the fixture, but surely there will be another midweek where Stoke will not be playing later in the season? This would make much more sense.
It appears that, as I stated to Sunderland, the Premier League do not care about the fans and just about ticking their own boxes. What rule stops this game from being put back to later in the season? What red tape makes this a no-go? I can see no definitive reason for it and, as such, do not believe that Fans were, at any point, considered in the decision to move the game. There are ample opportunities later in the season to play this game and myself and my colleagues (the people who pay premier league staff wages) seem to have been completely ignored.
I do not believe the Premier League have taken into account how many Sunderland season ticket holders will be involved (in some part) in the run. I know of at least 20 who are running in the event (and another 10 which are supporting those 20) - I believe the thoughts of the Premier League are only about "ticking the right boxes" which appears the norm when it comes to us fans.
Will the Premier League reimburse me the cost of my ticket for the game (approximately £23) or is this just a hit I have to take due to your not being flexible enough to allow the fans a say in this matter?
I would appreciate an answer to each comment posted above in your reply and not a simple response saying that we did due diligence or whatever as this does not answer any question I have posted to my club or to the premier league about the fixture scheduling.
05/09/2011 15:35I think that we need a response from Paul Weir.
It WILL have been his decision, after consulting and receiving "advice" from his former employers!
05/09/2011 16:04Fantastic digging guys.
05/09/2011 16:56You may find the England v Belgium game kicked off at 3.00pm....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t_8_r-ffDH4/SLvd1IsIxqI/AAAAAAAACiE/QGGl3tpZVoc/s1600-h/h+v+belgium+1999.jpg
05/09/2011 23:39Response received today from the Premier League:
Response (Rachel Pallant) - 09/09/2011 12.21 PM The timing of 1pm for the kick off was arrived at by the local police, council and the Club and with our agreement. With Stoke City playing on the previous Thursday and the following Tuesday, Sunday was the only option, and it was felt that 1pm would be the least problematic time. If the kick off time had been later, say 3pm, it is still unlikely that anyone taking part in the Great North Run would have been able to make it to the match, and it was felt that there would be more transport problems. The local police and the Club felt that a 1pm kick off time would be best option, and it gives travelling fans more time both to get to the match, and get away afterwards.
I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you, but we can assure you that a 1pm kick off was arrived at with the best of intentions by those who are familiar with the local issues and is designed to cause minimum disruption.
Kind regards,
Supporter Services
----
So SAFC advised me that their hands were tied but the Premier League advised me that it was Sunderlands decision?
09/09/2011 12:36Great work Marcus. That's a decision based on ignorace, clearly. I think 3pm or 4pm is fine. The roads start opening around 3pm - there's the clue! One lot of traffic coming into town, one leaving. At a 1pm kick off, everybody is leaving at 3pm. Nice one!
09/09/2011 14:39Er, game moved to 3pm now. People power!
10/09/2011 19:09